How to overcome challenges and obstacles
Our focus for this Season is on ‘Getting to the Top’ and I’m delighted to welcome Parv Sangera as my guest. Today, we’ll be talking about how to overcome challenges and obstacles we can all experience along the way.
A big thank you to Gail Morgan Style for sponsoring this season. Focusing on mindset, colours, style and wardrobe management, Gail has inspired me and thousands of other women to increase their visibility, impact, and influence by reducing wardrobe overwhelm and confusion. She truly is a master of her craft and completely understands how the ‘right’ clothes can immediately increase your confidence and credibility. Gail Morgan Style is offering our listeners 15% off all colour analysis sessions, and any of her other styling services, when you reference this podcast. To find out more, call 01442 262696 or visit www.gailmorganstyle.com.
About this episode
Our focus for this Season is on ‘Getting To The Top’ and I’ll be talking to some incredible women and experts from around the world to share their real-life stories, advice and tips to inspire you in your career.
It is a pleasure to welcome Parv Sangera as my guest today. Parv is Managing Director of The Bathroom Showroom and a trustee of the Girls Friendly Society. I’m delighted she’s joining me to talk about getting to the top and ‘How to overcome challenges and obstacles’ we can all experience along the way.
Resources
Gail Morgan Style: Gail Morgan Style is offering our listeners 15% off all colour analysis sessions, and any of her other styling services, when you reference this podcast. To find out more, call 01442 262696 or visit www.gailmorganstyle.com.
Girls Friendly Society (GFS): Established in 1875, GFS is one of the oldest registered charities working to support girls and young women in England and Wales. Visit www.girlsfriendlysociety.org.uk.
Episode transcript
Joy Burnford: Hello Parv and welcome to The Confidence Conversation.
Parv Sangera: Hello. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.
Joy Burnford: It's really lovely to have you for the first episode of our ‘Getting to the top’ season. So it's fantastic to have you with us. So I wondered if we could start with you telling me a little bit about your background, and your career and how you've reached where you are today.
Parv Sangera: Yeah, so my background really spans across a number of companies and industries. So I began my career in finance. However, I was really drawn to transformation strategy and change programmes. That's the stuff that really excites me, and it gets me out of bed in the morning. So after completing my qualification, and doing a number of more commercial financial roles with companies like Ford and Sony, I moved to consulting, so went to join IBM. And that was a really fantastic experience. So it allowed me to go and work internationally, lots of global travel, but also implement really big meaty transformation programmes across a number of sectors and with a number of clients. I then switched into merchanting with Travis Perkins, almost eight years ago, now, it's flown by. And I've not looked back since really so I worked my way up from finance manager to managing director which is where I am now. So I'm now part of the group management team where I lead the bathroom showroom business. That's a network of 255 showrooms across the country, where we provide bathroom solutions to both b2b and b2c channels. So yeah, that's where I am now.
Joy Burnford: Amazing. And what helped you reach the top? We had this conversation earlier about, do you feel you've reached the top? Do you feel you've reached the top?
Parv Sangera: Yeah, it's a really interesting question, isn't it? And I, sort of, the immediate answer is no, not just yet. I think I do recognise that I've come some way in my career, but there’s definitely for me further to go and more that I want to and hopefully will achieve. So it's a most definitely more to do.
Joy Burnford: Brilliant. And have you had on that journey up to the top? Have you had any sponsors or mentors? Or tell me a bit about you know, your professional network and that sort of thing? How that's helped you?
Parv Sangera: Yeah, I think it's a really interesting question sponsors, mentors, professional networks, I think they are hugely, hugely important in helping you to progress, whether that's gaining different perspectives, whether it's challenging your thinking, whether it's getting you to just think broader than your remit or your experiences in your day to day world. And I think it's really easy to forget the importance of that and that need to continuously invest that time and energy into building those sorts of connections. It's really important to do that with those who are senior to you for obvious reasons and for progression. But also, I think it's equally important to do that with your peers, with those working in different sectors, in different industries at different levels. All of it can really be very beneficial and help broaden your horizons. For me, personally, I've been really, really lucky to have some great sponsors and mentors throughout my career. You know, one of whom I still work with now. And they've all, in their own unique way sometimes, have challenged and supported me to help me get to where I am today. And I think if I were to kind of add one, one of the bits for me around networks is that I think it's really important to cultivate the right relationships. So it's got to be mutually beneficial, and you've both got to enjoy it, you're both taking time out of very busy lives and building a relationship. So if it doesn't work on both levels, it's not going to go the distance. And you also need to recognise that it evolves over time. So a great relationship where you're getting a lot out of a mentor response, and now might be very different in 18 months time. So it's about continuously investing in it, I think.
Joy Burnford: So what does success mean to you?
Parv Sangera: I think that's really evolved actually, over the last couple of years. I think if I were to reflect back a couple of years, it would have been quite a binary singular achievement. And it's probably having children, I think, actually, that's made it evolved to be to be much more than that. So it's far more rounded. For me now, it's about having a really rewarding career where I'm making an impact. It's about building a fantastic team. It's about the legacy that I'm creating. And, you know, if I think personally, it's about having been a very present parent and, and really focusing on the relationships that I have in my life that are important to me. So it has, it has most definitely evolved. And on some days, let's be really honest, success is just survival mode of battling with phonics homework and conference calls and tantrums at the dinner table. So Yeah, most definitely has taken on a different shape.
Joy Burnford: Especially in the last 18 months, two years.
Parv Sangera: Yes, yeah. As we all know that story.
Joy Burnford: So what do you think has been a major factor in you achieving success?
Parv Sangera: I think it's probably my mindset. And by that, I mean, I'm very comfortable with being uncomfortable, and embracing those tough, those challenging those difficult obstacles that all of us are presented with, personally and professionally. And it's probably come from a couple of places, I always refer back to a book I read quite early on in my career, called ‘Feel the fear and do it anyway’, it's been around for ages. And so, you're sort of nodding in agreement. I'm sure lots of your listeners have you heard of it. And I always go back to that, because it's about recognising that perceived fear, and reframing it to shift it to a much more positive learning experience. So that's my kind of go to when I need a bit of a push. And secondly, when I was working for IBM, the then CEO, a lady called Ginni Rometty, would always talk a lot about success and about growth and comfort, not co-existing. And that's a really powerful statement. And it's also one that resonates with me, every time I feel a little bit like all this, this is a bit new or a bit different, or I've not quite been here before. So I really believe that when you, your teams, the people around you operate in that way that leads to success. So it's not going to be linear, it's definitely not going to be instantaneous. But I think that success for me comes through getting comfortable with being uncomfortable.
Joy Burnford: So Farrah Storr, who's the editor of Elle, talks about the discomfort zone, I think, which is feeling that slight bit of difficulty, does help push, and I talk about taking baby steps, you push yourself one tiny little bit every day. And every time you push yourself and scare yourself, you're going to get more confident. So would you describe yourself as being ambitious? What drives and motivates you to stay motivated?
Parv Sangera: Yes, I would say hugely ambitious and probably a big dose of impatience to go with it, I think. So I think that's really, really just ingrained in me and probably the driver for it, is competition. So that's what drives and motivates me. And by that, I mean, competing with myself. So it's not it's not an outward game, it's not benchmarking myself against anybody else. It's for me, how can I be better than I was yesterday, but knowing that I'm not as good or as not as good as I can be tomorrow and have the potential to be tomorrow. And that's in every way, that's personally and professionally so my husband has to deal with a lot of that at home.
Joy Burnford: It's challenging, isn't it? Because I'm similar, you know, I'm similarly ambitious and, and it's that kind of always striving for more and better, and sometimes it can have that kind of, actually be in the present and be in the day, I suffer from it all the time. Like, you know, I'm always thinking about what's coming next, what am I going to do next and pushing myself and actually sometimes, like, just be comfortable in today. And what you're doing to stop worrying about what's going to happen
Parv Sangera: And that's a really difficult balance to find. I think it's either in your DNA or not, and I've had so many conversations with people or you know, with my husband or people that I work with, and you'll hear those phrases of just enjoy it and just be in the moment but if you're that way inclined and driven towards targets and goals. And let's be honest, borderline obsessive about it. Sometimes it's quite difficult to switch it off. But then you sort of reflect and go, would that have made an impact on my career if I hadn't have been as obsessive? But yeah, you're definitely right, of finding those right moments to just be in the moment.
Joy Burnford: Yes, it's really hard. So we've, you know, we've talked about you reaching a senior level and you strike me as a very confident person. Is that true? Obviously, this is called The Confidence Conversation, this podcast. And so I'd love to know, kind of, have you faced any confidence challenges in the past? And you know, how do you deal with those?
Parv Sangera: Yeah, I think confidence is something that I'm always working on. So I'm probably quite outwardly confident. But I think we've all got those inner critics, I think that mean that you battle with your confidence. And I suppose it was actually really interesting for me Joy, listening back to some of your podcasts, I was listening to the one on maternity leave. And it struck a massive chord. And I would have to say that, for me returning back to work, after my maternity leave with my second baby, was probably when my confidence was at the lowest. And that's probably quite surprising, even as I reflect on it now, because I'd been really active in keeping in touch with the business, very much involved, doing all the right things. But I remember being sat on a virtual meeting with a couple of senior stakeholders, probably three weeks in once I'd returned, thinking, what am I doing? What am I bringing to the table? What do I have to add? Who am I? Well, you know, it's just this whole mix of emotions. And that moment stayed with me for the rest of the day. And then the rest of the week, and then the next week, and then it sort of, it just felt like it was like this cycle I couldn't get out of. And I think that's where the value of your network really kicks in. Because I reached out to a fantastic senior leader who just happens to be a woman that I used to work with briefly. And I remember speaking to her and being on the verge of tears, or if not in tears, which is quite unlike me. But actually, that conversation really helped to lift the fog and recognise that it wasn't unique. And for me to start, I guess, really understanding what steps I needed to take in order to build up my confidence and recognise that, you know, I'd been on maternity leave during a pandemic with a young baby, and a toddler in tow. So I was just exhausted, or coming back to work in a virtual way was very different, or it was a restructured business. So everything had changed. And once I kind of addressed that, I could start to take those small, to your point earlier, baby steps of working through that, working on my mindset, setting small goals, doing a training course where I could upskill myself a little. So it was lots of incremental things, I think, to really rebuild my confidence. So it's, it's yeah, it's definitely work in progress continually, it’s a continual evolution.
Joy Burnford: So being on the board, would you say that you're working in what's still a very male dominated environment? And you how do you deal with that?
Parv Sangera: Yeah, it's still most definitely a male dominated environment. But that's pretty consistent with everything I've experienced in my career, and probably resonates with most of your listeners, I would say, and most women in the workplace today, so it's not, unfortunately, a unique situation. And it's difficult, right? Because you don't know any different. You don't see anything different. But what I would say on the topic is that I've stopped fixating on all the things that make me different. So that might be my age, or the fact that, you know, I'm not as flexible with my diary, because I've got two children at home. So I can't be over, you know, away overnight at short notice. And I think instead of getting too hung up on what makes me different, I've worked really hard to try and build relationships with the people around the table and find the similarities or the things that we've got in common. So that might, I don’t know, books you've read, or podcasts or listened to. And so if you can start to build those relationships, I think that just helps the rest of it flow more naturally, I guess, and easier. And I think, for women in particular, what we do need, is to feel more empowered to educate others. If we've got boundaries, we should tell people about it. If we need the support, we should ask for it. And we just don't do that. As women, we just go no, no, no, I can do it all myself. And I can hold it all up on my own. So that's very much me included. Right? But how is your boss supposed to know if you can't make a meeting because you've got to do a school run. He doesn't, right. And then we end up all feeling burned out and feeling like nothing ever is done quite in the way that you want it to. So that's a big thing for me to work on actually. Empowering and educating others.
Joy Burnford: Yeah, actually, it's interesting. When I spoke to somebody, I can’t remember who it was now, but they talked about non negotiables and putting those in the diary. So everybody across the team had their own non negotiables whether that was picking up kids, whether it was going for a run, whether it was something to do with you know, doing yoga class or something that really mattered to them, and actually being aware of everybody's non negotiables was such a great idea actually, for how you can respect other people's priorities and life events. And that stuck with me as I thought that's such a good idea.
Parv Sangera: Yeah, it's holding yourself to account though for it. And it's making sure that you don't concede that ground. So that's yeah, you have to be quite strict, I think.
*** Joy Burnford: I do hope you’re enjoying the conversation so far. I want to take a moment to tell you a little bit more about my reasons for doing this podcast. At My Confidence Matters our mission is to work together to navigate a path to gender equality through building confidence and capability. I’m passionate about enabling every woman to have the confidence to progress in their career, and I love talking to, and sharing women’s stories to inspire others. This podcast forms a small part of what we do, and if you think there’s room for improvement in the way your organisation understands and manages the issues, barriers and obstacles that women face in the workplace, please do get in touch or tell your HR contact about us.
And don’t forget, developing a consistent personal brand can help you build your confidence and achieve your ambitions. So, if something as simple as clothes is standing between you and success, the amazing Gail at Gail Morgan Style is offering you 15% of all colour analysis and other services when you reference this podcast.***
Joy Burnford: So moving on to your personal life, we've spoken before about the additional expectation you feel from your background and from the Asian community. Can you tell me a little bit about that? And you know, how you've pursued your career alongside those expectations?
Parv Sangera: Yeah, I mean, I'm in my mid 30s now, but when I kind of think back to my childhood, I remember growing up within our community, and people would ask my parents if they had any sons. And the answer would be no, two daughters. And then the response would be, never mind, or along the lines of that with this huge dose of commiseration for good measure on top. And that was probably one of my earliest brushes with gender inequality. However many times my sister or I heard it, we would always go, Wow, I can't believe someone just said that. That's the kind of undertones I guess of being a woman in, or female or girl in the Asian community. I mean, I've been very blessed in that I've had a very liberal upbringing, and my parents have raised my sister and I are with a really good blend of cultures. But despite that, it's still quite difficult to escape those cultural norms and those pressures and stereotypes of the girls. You know, whether it's being meek and mild, or don't speak up to elders, or the expectations of being married in your early 20s. And having children quite quickly after, I think even now, you know, I would say the gender stereotypes still remain and are there in so many ways. It's probably only over the last few years that I've thought about how that all translates into the workplace. So if you're asking somebody for a raise, or a promotion, or challenging someone more senior than you, or speaking up about your achievements, because we all need to do more of that, that all conflicts really with the norms of what you had growing up. So it's actually quite, you know, exhausting to navigate that. Yeah, so it's cast a real big shadow, I think on probably how I've shown up to work sometimes.
Joy Burnford: Yeah. And I think it's amazing, you know, you've got to where you’ve got to being fairly young, and Asian and female, because I think all of those three things are kind of against you, in a way, you know, you've done amazingly to do what you've done. It's fantastic. You also, we've talked about you’ve got two young children. So you face the juggle, like many of us, you know, how do you manage to fit work and family life together? You clearly do manage. How do you manage it? What do you have around you to help to help you achieve that?
Parv Sangera: Oh, the first thing I would say is just build your team, your squad, your support, network, whatever you want to call it, but surround yourself with those people that are going to be there to help you to make it work. So for me, it's my parents who are fantastically hands on grandparents, I'm very, very lucky to have them. Make sure your partner is on the same page, which sounds quite obvious. But you know, my husband has an equally demanding job and career. And most of the time, we work well as a team. And don't forget to pick up the children and you know, share those commitments and things. We share all of that. So I think that's a big factor. If you can find those people that are going to be in your corner. And I'd say find the right company to work for, make that choice. By now. You know, you'd think everybody in this world is offering flexibility, but that doesn't always happen. So make that choice to find an employer that's going to be really flexible and support you as a working parent, or as a carer or someone that does charity work in the community, I think, if you can do that, that's a big stride forward. And then I think it's quite similar to your point on non negotiables, I think we've all got a responsibility to make the juggle work for each other. So I try and do that quite consciously with my team. So whether it's shifting a meeting for the school run or recognising they've got a poorly child, it's recognising that whole person and giving them the support that they need at any given point in time. So yeah, it's most definitely a juggle, some days, it's survival mode, and you just get through and collapse at the end of the day. And some days you feel almost like you've got some control. Very few and far between those ones. But yeah, you survive.
Joy Burnford: Yeah. And then that sort of moves us on to the next question, I was going to ask you about your health and happiness, you know, we were just talking earlier about, you know, going for a walk when you're chatting to your team or whatever, you know, other ideas like that. But how do you how do you focus on your health, when you're when you're busy with everything else and your self care?
Parv Sangera: The physical side of things has never really been too much of a struggle for me. So I enjoy working out whether it's you know, getting in the gym or going for a run or whatever it might be that bits always been my sort of downtime. So I find that quite easy to do, because I know I operate more effectively when I do that. The bit that's been far more of a struggle is working on my headspace, switching off was just something that I just didn't do probably 18 months ago. But I recognise that when I don't switch off, I'm not operating in the most productive way. So I've started to do a couple of things actually, get out at least for half an hour a day to go for a walk around the block. And I'm probably doing that while I'm doing a work call. So it's multitasking. But it's that change of scenery that allows me to reset, recharge, reframe a bad meeting, or a bad conversation I've just had and then my energy for the rest of the afternoon. So I went down quite that point where it's a non negotiable, but it's edging it’s way to there, and something else actually I started doing that I never thought I would is journaling, I would never have put myself in that space. But actually, it's a fantastic outlet for putting pen to paper in, gives you that little blank piece of paper to get your thoughts down and clear your head of all the clutter and noise. So that's been a really good exercise that I've been doing. And when you write it down, it doesn't actually seem that bad.
Joy Burnford: Absolutely. And do you do that in the mornings, or in the evenings, typically? I think with young children, I think I found, I could never do it in the mornings. And actually, I'm really bad at doing evenings as well. But it was, I quite like doing sort of gratitude journals and stuff in the evening and sort of, you know, three things to be thankful for. And that, again, is a sort of lovely thing to try and, you know, be grateful for this.
Parv Sangera: There are some really good ones out there. If you're new into it, they're quite guided, that you know, you've got the little boxes to fill out. And that's been really helpful. But yeah, I think as women generally we don't prioritise ourselves, a bit indulgent, a bit selfish and, and there’s the extremity of going to a spa day, or doing something massively excessive, but actually, it's simple stuff like going for a walk or an early night or focusing on your sleep if you can do that. So it's small things.
Joy Burnford: So could you give our listeners sort of three top tips, you know, of women who are, you know, wanting to get to the top who might be going through difficult struggles at the moment, or not quite sure about whether they want to kind of progress in their career? And what would your three top tips be?
Parv Sangera: Tip number one would be not everybody's going to like you, or buy into you. I think I've spent far too much time trying to validate myself through the value that others put on me. And that's just exhausting. So I think back yourself based on the evidence of the things that you've achieved and what you've done well. Secondly, I would say, take ownership of your career. So yes, you need mentors and a network, but nobody is going to care about your career as much as you will. So own it, drive it be focused on it, even when you have got, you know, changes in your life, children, family, etc. Really take ownership of your career. And then probably the last one of I think the bit we talked around what's helped me to succeed so far is get comfortable with being uncomfortable. It's not easy being the first person around a table that looks like you, or saying something in a room full of people with more experience. But I think getting uncomfortable is the only way to reach what you want as success.
Joy Burnford: Brilliant. That's absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much Parv for your wonderful advice for our listeners. And it's been a pleasure to talk to you this morning.
Parv Sangera: Thank you very much for having me. It's been fantastic. Thank you so much Joy.
Joy Burnford: We'll speak to you soon. Bye. And that’s it for this week. Thank you very much for listening and I’ll be back again soon with another Confidence Conversation. If you know anyone who might find this podcast useful, please do pass on the link and it would give me a real confidence boost if you could subscribe, rate and leave a written review (on Apple podcasts here or on Podchaser here). If you like what you’ve heard, sign up for updates where I’ll be sharing tips and notes from each episode and you can send in your ideas for future topics.
And remember you can get 15% off all virtual and in-person colour analysis sessions and other services at Gail Morgan Style when you reference this podcast. To book, call 01442 262696 or visit www.gailmorganstyle.com.
Thank you, and until the next time, bye for now.