The power of coaching and mentoring

Our focus for Season One is ‘Being Your Best Self’ and I'm delighted to welcome Sian Prigg as my guest for this episode. Today, we’ll be talking all things coaching and mentoring.

A big thank you to Capability Jane Recruitment for helping us bring this podcast to life. If you know a business embracing flexible working, head over to www.capabilityjane.com quoting ‘The Confidence Conversation’ and if they become a client they’ll thank you with a £100 gift voucher.

About this episode

Our focus for this Season is ‘Being Your Best Self’ and today I’m welcoming the wonderful Sian Prigg as my guest. Sian is the Senior Learning and Talent Manager at Opel Vauxhall Finance, and she has worked in the field of talent and HR for over 20 years.  I have been very fortunate to get to know Sian and her team over the last couple of years helping them to develop their company-wide mentoring programme. She also coaches school aged girls and their parents about their career options through her coaching business Start Sooner. Today, we’ll be talking all things coaching and mentoring.

Resources

My Confidence Matters research report - Rethinking leadership through a gender lens: New ways of working resulting from Covid-19.

How to be a more confident you - My Confidence Matters Eight-Step Confidence Cycle

My Confidence Matters confidence coaching and mentoring – Learn more about our programmes

Episode transcript

Joy Burnford: Our focus for this Season is ‘Being Your Best Self’ and today I’m welcoming the wonderful Sian Prigg as my guest. Sian is the Senior Learning and Talent Manager at Opel Vauxhall Finance, and she has worked in the field of talent and HR for over 20 years.  I have been very fortunate to get to know Sian and her team over the last couple of years helping them to develop their company-wide mentoring programme. She also coaches school aged girls and their parents about their career options through her coaching business Start Sooner. Today, we’ll be talking all things coaching and mentoring. Good afternoon, Sian, and welcome to The Confidence Conversation.

Sian Prigg: Thank you. And thank you for inviting me along.

Joy Burnford: Lovely to have you here. So as you know, today's episode is all about mentoring and coaching, both looking at the benefits for women in particular and top tips for getting the most out of your mentor or coach. So I thought to begin with, it'd be great if you could perhaps briefly describe your career background and experience in relation to mentoring and coaching.

Sian Prigg: Of course. So I am currently a Senior Learning Consultant for Opel Vauxhall Finance. So there I'm responsible for all the learning and development, and particularly for leading our mentoring programme. I've been there for coming up for five years now. I also run a coaching business alongside that, an organisation called Start Sooner which works with young women at school age, in terms of helping them start to think about their careers, and start to think about what they could do. Prior to both of these, I've worked in people industries for well over 20 years now, which makes me feel very old Joy, and a whole host of recruitment, HR and learning and development roles throughout. And that's what my love of people came from.

Joy Burnford: Amazing and it must be really satisfying working with school aged children actually.

Sian Prigg: Yeah it is, it’s something that's kind of my passion project, I guess on the side, and it came from working with parents to start with and some of the horror stories I heard about some of the careers advice that young people were getting. And that just made me think you know what, there's something not quite right here still. And I think back to the careers advice I had at school, it wasn't great. And it doesn't seem to have gotten any better, sadly, so yes, it's very rewarding.

Joy Burnford: Brilliant. And I guess before we get into the detail of the podcast, I wondered if you could explain in your mind, the difference between mentoring and coaching for our listeners?

Sian Prigg: Of course. So mentoring, I always see as more of a knowledge sharing relationship. So often, it's somebody that's in the kind of role or the kind of profession that you want to get into who can share that knowledge with you and help guide you to where you want to be. Whereas with a coaching role, I see it more of dealing with a problem and looking at specific problems and trying to uncover solutions to them. So they often get kind of put in the same bag. And to me, they're totally different things that we often mix up.

Joy Burnford: Absolutely. And then sponsorship on top of that also comes in as well in terms of another layer on top of mentoring.

Sian Prigg: Absolutely. And I think it's sponsorship in my eyes, is one of the most critical things to career success that often we forget about. You know, we talk about coaching and mentoring and often having that really good sponsor, that person who is really your advocate throughout the organisation makes the difference.

Joy Burnford: And if you're in an organisation that doesn't have a sponsorship programme, what tips could you give to women to try and make that happen?

Sian Prigg: I think you can so I think it's finding people who are like minded to you. But I think it's also, sometimes it doesn't have to be a programme you know, you can go out and find a great person who can be your sponsor without there being a formal programme in place that supports it. So I think what I would say to any woman out there is if you think it's something you need, go and find it, whether there's a programme or not there for you.

Joy Burnford: Yes, and don't be afraid to ask for it.

Sian Prigg: Absolutely. And I think it's a very female trait, that we often wait for things to come to us rather than going out and asking for it.

Joy Burnford: Have you actually ever had a sponsor?

Sian Prigg: I have, I do I have one now. And she's fabulous. She's one of our senior executives on our executive committee at work. And, again, it came not from being a formal kind of relationship. I don't think we ever had that official conversation that said, Will you be my sponsor? It's just naturally happened. She helps me now and is brilliant.

Joy Burnford: So from a HR point of view, what do you think the benefits are for women of having a mentor or a coach?

Sian Prigg: I think that there's a whole host of them. And I could probably talk for about seven hours, but I won't! I think often, particularly for women, that whole imposter syndrome, of not thinking that you're good enough, not thinking that you can do a certain role or that you've got the right skills for something or you've got to have 73 more qualifications before you could possibly apply. I think having a mentor can really help cut through some of those inner voice conversations that we have that stopped us maybe asking for the promotion or going for the job thinking about a totally different area of the business and time.

Joy Burnford: Absolutely. And what sort of challenges do you find that women in particular face? You've talked about imposter syndrome. Are there other things that you find, other challenges that that people come to you for help with?

Sian Prigg: Yes, I think predominantly we find, so I'm one of the co-chairs of our women's Inspirational Network at Opel Vauxhall Finance, and one of the key things that we work on an awful lot is confidence, and it is, you know, it's asking for things, it's having the confidence to actually speak up in meetings and share your ideas. And I think that's probably the biggest area that I spend my time working on with women, is just helping them see the skills that they have, and give them the confidence to actually speak.

Joy Burnford: Yes, I did the talk for your Women's Network last year, indeed. So could you give some advice to our listeners about how to choose a mentor? Or a coach? What should they look for?

Sian Prigg: I think there's a couple of things to look for. For me, one of the most important things is getting the right personality fit as well. So somebody that you trust, that you can be honest and open with, that you don't feel you lie about, or say that just in case, you know. I think you absolutely need that on one hand. But then it's also really putting the thought into what you want to achieve from it. So if it's a certain role you want to get into, if it's a certain industry you want to get into, or a certain skill you want to develop, it's about thinking, OK, who are the people I really look up to in terms of that, and marry that with the personality piece of actually, do I want to talk to this person? Am I going to trust them? And am I going to enjoy that relationship? And I think that's the most important, but I think sometimes people go into mentoring relationships without really thinking about what they want to achieve. And then it just becomes a lovely chat, and a good friend often. But it might not help you get to where you want to be.

Joy Burnford: Yes. And what are your thoughts about having a defined length of time for that relationship?

Sian Prigg: I think it's a good idea. So, we recently with your help Joy, launched a mentoring programme, and we've set it at a nine-month period, because I think sometimes it can just peter out, or sometimes, you know, you get to the end, and you're not quite sure how to end this relationship. Now, you know, when you've got that stop, and it doesn't mean that you can't extend it afterwards. You can't carry on with it. But it almost forces that conversation to say, Is this still working for us? rather than that awkward petering off time.

Joy Burnford: So what are your top tips for getting the most out of your relationship with your mentor or coach?

Sian Prigg: I think the biggest thing, I think there's two things, but I think the biggest thing is knowing what you want from it. So really spending some time thinking about what your goals are and what you want to achieve from it. But also not forgetting that relationship side and actually taking the time to get to know that person and understand them. Rather than it just being a very kind of functional, here's my list of things I want to talk about today. But actually having that relationship and getting to know them I think is really important as well.

Joy Burnford: And why is it important for women to build a trusted support network?

Sian Prigg: I just think again it's back to that impostor syndrome, that lack of confidence, you know, we're seeing from the gender pay gaps from, there's still not enough women working their way into certain roles, certain industries. And I think having that network of people around you to support you and help you recognise maybe where you're not very good at recognising yourself, what you could do. And having those people who will champion you and be your cheerleaders is so important.

Joy Burnford: That happens to me all the time, and my colleague, even today, I sort of doubt myself, and I'm thinking, can I really say that? Yes, of course you can. And it's having that person just to say to you. Or if you're, you know, you're going to do a presentation, I've got plenty of coaches that I've worked with, and you know, them suddenly ringing up saying, I'm thinking of you, you can do this, just to give you that boost of confidence really, really helps.

Sian Prigg: Absolutely. And I think you know, you get it all the time. I get it when people are like, oh, but you do public speaking and you're a trainer and you're a coach, you must have it all nailed? No.

Joy Burnford: And that's one of the reasons I wanted to do this podcast, because I think people see, you know, people like me, they think you seem really confident Joy, but actually underneath, there's still this little voice going on in my head, you know, you're not good enough? And why? Why would anybody listen to you? So I think it's really important to share that, you know, the message is that it's not always the case. Yes, as you know, we've done some research in the past. And one of the things we looked at were some of the barriers to women's success. What's your experience around that? What do you think is stopping women reaching senior levels?

Sian Prigg: I think there's a few things, I think one is definitely the speaking out part. So having the confidence to share their ideas, to talk about the improvements that they can make, and to talk about what they'd like to do as well, I think is one of the sides. I think it's more natural, generally, for men to talk about that and share those kinds of things and ask for what they want. Whereas we tend to sit back and wait and think, oh, somebody will come when I'm ready, you know, we go all coy about it. And I still think there's some work to be done around child care and coming back from maternity. And we were recently looking, we’re owned by a joint venture between PSA and BMP and they've been doing a lot of research in France around it as well. And we were looking at the gap of women over 50. And actually, the development tends to drop off a lot for them. Whereas actually, that's a time when we should be encouraging even more. So I still think there's a lot of work to be done around maternity, as well as the confidence side of things.

Joy Burnford: Absolutely. What do you think are the secrets to making women successful and happy in their careers?

Sian Prigg: That’s a big question, Joy! I think it's really about drawing out people's uniqueness. I think regardless of whether it's a man or a woman, or you know, whatever it is, whatever age, I think it's about using people's unique skills, and really encouraging people to bring, you know, their absolute best self to the role that they're in. Rather than thinking, I should behave like this, or I should behave like that in order to be successful. I think it's giving people that permission, almost, that you can be yourself, and you can share your wacky ideas, and you don't have to be a certain type of person or wear a certain type of clothing, and I don't think we do enough of that. So, you know, I think if I gave one piece of advice, and it's probably the piece of advice I give the most to people is really understand who you are. And then and then take that authentic you to work.

Joy Burnford: Yes. And focus on your strengths.

Sian Prigg: Absolutely. Because we're always, we're terrible and we're not very good at that. And I'm not very good at, there's never, this is my superpower. You know, you rarely say that.

Joy Burnford: No, I think British people especially, don't like saying that, we don't like to boast. And what do you do as an organisation then, in terms of encouraging people to be their unique self, bringing that authentic self to work? Do you do anything in particular, like training?

Sian Prigg: We do. So we have a number of networks across OVF. And we have a number of strategic priorities that we work on in terms of the business and one of those strategic priorities is all around diversity and responsibility. So yes, there's all the usual corporate kind of KPIs and things that we work to, but actually one of the core pillars of our strategy is around how we can make sure that we have that diversity of thinking, you know, because I think sometimes when we think about diversity, we think about the physical diversity and not always that diversity of thought, you know, and if we think about designing a car, actually having a whole host of different people involved in that process is just going to make that car more saleable to more people. And I think that's one of the things we really focus in on is how we can make sure we've got a real cross section of people.

Joy Burnford: Interesting. Thinking about the last year and obviously, the way we've all been working has changed dramatically in the last 12 months. And the way that coaching and mentoring has sort of switched over to being more online, how do you see this working in the future? And I guess, you know, what are the key differences that you see about conducting sessions virtually rather than face to face? And which do you think is best?

Sian Prigg: I think the thing that's worked really nicely for us is we're a global organisation anyway. So a lot of our work, even pre pandemic was done virtually, because we have people spread all over the country. And I think this has almost forced us made us think about that even more, whereas before, there was always that little voice that went, Oh, well, those two are based in the UK. So actually, they could meet up, we don't even take that into consideration anymore. And actually, one of the reasons we wanted the mentoring programme, and a more formal mentoring programme was to look at mobility between countries and between different sites. And it's really helped with that, in some ways, because it's taken that little voice out of our heads that says but they're geographically located closer together. So maybe that will work better. And, you know, from the feedback we've had, we’re four months into the new programme, from the feedback we've had, they've been no negatives, in terms of you know, it'd be more difficult to build the relationship or actually I just think people have got used to it now. And, you know, the joys of video now mean that even though you're not in the room, it feels like you're in the room. And actually, you get that little bit of insight into people's lives behind it, as well.

Joy Burnford: So, I guess maybe in the future, it might be a combination of virtual and face to face.

Sian Prigg: Yes, I think it's just options that are listening, you know, and that's absolutely the way we're going, is finding that balance of Okay, sometime in the office, sometime at home, and finding what works best for you. And I think, you know, that's going to be the same for all of our programmes.

Joy Burnford: Great. And I'm writing a book at the moment called ‘Don't Fix Women: A toolkit for gender parity at work’. And one of the chapters is all about reverse mentoring, because I think this is something that's really critical, actually for gender balance in the workplace, and having senior men, typically men in an organisation partnered up with somebody lower down in the organisation and learning from both parties. And I'd love to know if you have experience of this, or you know, if you could talk a little bit about your experience, your thoughts on reverse mentoring?

Sian Prigg: Yeah, I agree with you, Joy. I think it's an absolute critical part. And as much as we've not kind of talked about it that much in our mentoring programme that we've set up, we had our first check ins with our mentors, and it absolutely came out as something that's happening, you know, people, particularly across countries as well, understanding different cultures, understanding different sexes, different ways of working. I think the mentors are getting as much out of the programme as the mentees. So and I think it is, you know, it's so important that from age ranges, from culture, from sex, you know, again, back to all that diversity. I think it's really important that we understand different people. And I think this absolutely helps to do that.

Joy Burnford: And to get that feedback loop back as well around this whole new way of working as well.

Sian Prigg: I think as we've gone from the, you know, if I think back to years even, you know, it could never work for us, we could never be a remote organisation, you know, that just wouldn't work. And now we’re if not more efficient or working from home than we ever realised we could be.

Joy Burnford: And do you think that mentoring relationship, you know, talking about the reverse mentoring element, do you think that's changed now? Now, do you think it's something that's sort of starting to become more commonplace in terms of senior people being more open and vulnerable?

Sian Prigg: I do, I think I've seen a big change in the last 18 months about what people are happy to talk about, you know, when it comes to mental health, when it comes to resilience, when all these things, I think people are just more open about it now. And I think it's one of the good things that's come out of the pandemic is people do talk about these things more, they do share more. And what we're finding is people are just genuinely more curious about people. You know, there's not so much judgement. It's just I'm genuinely interested in what's going on and how you work and what you do. And I think, you know, if that's one thing we can take away from this crazy time that we're going through, then, that’s great.

Joy Burnford: Let's hope that continues and doesn't just drop off once the pandemic is over.

Sian Prigg: No, I agree. I think it's our place for all of us to continue that and encourage it. You know, I think we've learned an awful lot from this time, good and bad, and I think it's now about OK, what do we want to take forward? The whole ‘I can't wait to get back to normality’ is my most hated term at the moment, and let's not start on the new normal!

Joy Burnford: Yes, great. So thinking about coming back to mentoring. And I think one of the things we've talked about with the programme was using our Wheel of Potential, which you've been using, and looking at the measurement of mentoring and coaching, because it's a bit of an art. And I think what I'm trying to sort of look at is how you can make it a bit more of a science and actually looking at whether you can measure it. And I'd love to just explore, you know, your feedback around that in terms of the importance of measurement of the impact of how do you know whether it's been a good programme or not?

Sian Prigg: Yes, I think we've gone back and forth. And you've helped us a lot with this Joy in terms of how we measure that impact, because we don't want it to become a very rigid programme in terms of right, here's our KPI. So unless you're talking about something that's going to get us there, that's it, you're gone. The Wheel of Potential has absolutely helped, because I think it opens our eyes up, and our mentor and mentees eyes up, to all of the different possibilities that they can work on together. And you know, that sliding scale of OK, I started at a three and now I'm at a five and, you know, looking at those measurements as well, I think is important. We have other measures in around gender and around women being more mobile in their careers, and generally around career mobility. But I think a big part of it is looking at the wellbeing and the relationship side as well, which is always the harder part to measure. But I think has the biggest impact at the same time.

Joy Burnford: Great. So finally, really, are you feeling optimistic and positive about the future of women in the workplace?

Sian Prigg: I am. I think, it still frustrates me that we seem to be stuck a bit again. But I do think with all these changes in working with more flexibility coming in, with more thought about how people work best, rather than you know, we're in an office nine to five all the time. I think if we harness that opportunity, I think it will make a huge difference. But exactly like you say it's just now making sure we don't just slip back into the old ways. Because I still think there's a huge way to go, you know, and if I think we should be a lot further forward than we are. When I started looking at figures 10, 20 years ago, I never imagined we'd still be talking about it today. I thought we'd be there but we’re not.

Joy Burnford: Yes, great. And so finally, I'd love to know who inspires you? And why, perhaps in the space of mentoring and coaching?

Sian Prigg: Probably not in mentoring in a way of bringing in that unique self part. So there's a couple of people and I'm going to turn to the public eye for it rather than people I know. I think there's two people who really jump out at me. So one is, and I don't think this will surprise you. Because you know, I'm a little bit quirky. So one is Paloma Faith, who is one of my heroes, because I just think she is absolutely her authentic self, whether people love or hate or whatever, that is who she is. And she's quite happy to bring that side of herself. And I think, you know, she wouldn't be nearly as successful as she is today if she didn't, if she tried to stick in that box. And then Jacinda Ardern, when I look at the pandemic, at the moment, I think if I go to New Zealand, and look at how they've handled it, and the difference there, I think, you know, I would not want that money for that job for all the money in the world. But I think she has done an absolutely incredible job of managing that with such empathy, such care. And I just think, you know, to go through something like that, the way that she has, I think she's an absolute role model.

Joy Burnford: Brilliant. Thank you so much. And it's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you today.

Sian Prigg: Oh, thank you. And thank you for having me along.

Joy Burnford: And that’s it for this week. Thank you very much for listening and I’ll be back again soon with another Confidence Conversation. If you know anyone who might find this podcast useful, please do keep the conversation going and pass on a link and it would give me a real confidence boost if you could subscribe, rate and leave a written review (on Apple podcasts here or on Podchaser here).

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